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	<title>Comments on: Sustainable Pagan communities: An interview with Alison Leigh Lilly</title>
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	<link>http://humanisticpaganism.com/2012/06/17/sustainable-pagan-communities-an-interview-with-alison-leigh-lily/</link>
	<description>Ancient Paganism and modern science</description>
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		<title>By: Solidarity, not unity: An interview with Jason Pitzl-Waters &#171; Humanistic Paganism</title>
		<link>http://humanisticpaganism.com/2012/06/17/sustainable-pagan-communities-an-interview-with-alison-leigh-lily/#comment-3421</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Solidarity, not unity: An interview with Jason Pitzl-Waters &#171; Humanistic Paganism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2012 13:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] firm enough to support that kind of solidarity.  A sense of &#8220;legitimacy&#8221; was how Alison Leigh Lilly put it.  In one corner you&#8217;ve got Recons and Hard Polytheists doing great work to promote [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] firm enough to support that kind of solidarity.  A sense of &#8220;legitimacy&#8221; was how Alison Leigh Lilly put it.  In one corner you&#8217;ve got Recons and Hard Polytheists doing great work to promote [...]</p>
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		<title>By: How can a naturalist emerge in Paganism? &#171; Humanistic Paganism</title>
		<link>http://humanisticpaganism.com/2012/06/17/sustainable-pagan-communities-an-interview-with-alison-leigh-lily/#comment-2773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How can a naturalist emerge in Paganism? &#171; Humanistic Paganism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] Alison Leigh Lilly suggests the hard polytheist current may be motivated by a desire for legitimacy in the eyes of the mainstream, and I suspect that is true of the naturalist one as well.  While the former moves toward what is perceived as historical accuracy and resemblance to mainstream American religious views, the latter moves toward what is perceived as factual accuracy and resemblance to mainstream science. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Alison Leigh Lilly suggests the hard polytheist current may be motivated by a desire for legitimacy in the eyes of the mainstream, and I suspect that is true of the naturalist one as well.  While the former moves toward what is perceived as historical accuracy and resemblance to mainstream American religious views, the latter moves toward what is perceived as factual accuracy and resemblance to mainstream science. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Isis in Big History, Part 3: From the Middle Ages to the Modern Era &#171; Humanistic Paganism</title>
		<link>http://humanisticpaganism.com/2012/06/17/sustainable-pagan-communities-an-interview-with-alison-leigh-lily/#comment-2681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Isis in Big History, Part 3: From the Middle Ages to the Modern Era &#171; Humanistic Paganism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humanisticpaganism.com/?p=2439#comment-2681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of nature consistent with mainstream science, while hard polytheists may do so by linking myths to perceptions of historically-accurate styles of belief.  Meanwhile, ambiguity on the point in most Pagan discourse may enable myths to serve in multiple [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of nature consistent with mainstream science, while hard polytheists may do so by linking myths to perceptions of historically-accurate styles of belief.  Meanwhile, ambiguity on the point in most Pagan discourse may enable myths to serve in multiple [...]</p>
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		<title>By: B. T. Newberg</title>
		<link>http://humanisticpaganism.com/2012/06/17/sustainable-pagan-communities-an-interview-with-alison-leigh-lily/#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[B. T. Newberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&gt;It is interesting to speculate what paganism might look like in 100 years. 

Indeed.  In this vein, I remember feeling a wake-up call after reading Robert Fuller&#039;s book &quot;Spiritual but not Religious&quot;, which traced the history of alternative spirituality movements in America.  I realized that movement after movement had replaced its predescesor(s), e.g. Transcendentalism, Freemasonry, Theosophy, Spiritism, New Thought, Transcendental Meditation, etc.  This made me wonder if Wicca and Paganism were not the current vogue in this same lineage of alternative movements, to be replaced soon enough by something else.

Nowadays, it seems like that just might happen.  A self-destruct sequence seems to have been initiated around the label &quot;Pagan&quot;, and if enough people keep that going, that&#039;s going to be the end of this movement - to be replaced by what?  I dunno.  Perhaps &quot;Polytheism&quot;, newly separate from various green spiritualities and naturalistic spiritualities.  Or not.  Maybe all will still find a way to play happily together.  Who knows?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;It is interesting to speculate what paganism might look like in 100 years. </p>
<p>Indeed.  In this vein, I remember feeling a wake-up call after reading Robert Fuller&#8217;s book &#8220;Spiritual but not Religious&#8221;, which traced the history of alternative spirituality movements in America.  I realized that movement after movement had replaced its predescesor(s), e.g. Transcendentalism, Freemasonry, Theosophy, Spiritism, New Thought, Transcendental Meditation, etc.  This made me wonder if Wicca and Paganism were not the current vogue in this same lineage of alternative movements, to be replaced soon enough by something else.</p>
<p>Nowadays, it seems like that just might happen.  A self-destruct sequence seems to have been initiated around the label &#8220;Pagan&#8221;, and if enough people keep that going, that&#8217;s going to be the end of this movement &#8211; to be replaced by what?  I dunno.  Perhaps &#8220;Polytheism&#8221;, newly separate from various green spiritualities and naturalistic spiritualities.  Or not.  Maybe all will still find a way to play happily together.  Who knows?</p>
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		<title>By: M. Jay Lee</title>
		<link>http://humanisticpaganism.com/2012/06/17/sustainable-pagan-communities-an-interview-with-alison-leigh-lily/#comment-2595</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M. Jay Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humanisticpaganism.com/?p=2439#comment-2595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great interview!  I am looking forward to listening to “Faith, Fern and Compass.”  I think Alison has really put her finger on the mark – “sustainability” is a huge issue in paganism.  Modern western paganism/polytheism is a very, very young religion growing in the strange unnatural soil of modern life.  IMO paganism is still very much an adolescent religion, still finding itself, still reacting/rebelling against mainstream culture and religion.  This is of course an exciting time in the life of a religion, but I wonder if paganism will stand the test of time.  It is interesting to speculate what paganism might look like in 100 years.  Of course with the never ending breakneck speed of technological innovation and change in our culture, who knows what the world will be like in 100 years much less paganism.  Sustainability is truly the issue of our times.

I also very much agree with what Alison has to say about hard polytheism.  Our overall culture puts a lot of emphasis on physical reality and de-emphasizes/de-values the very real but non-physical aspects of human experience (or worse reduces the significance of these by interpreting them as merely mental processes).  For many Christians if Jesus did not literally rise from the dead and physically ascend into heaven, than the whole Christian tradition, the sense of meaning and purpose derived from participating in the Christian community and the very real and powerful spiritual experience that many Christians have, is a baseless delusion, without real value.  I think some of these same forces/values (either knowingly or not) are at work pushing paganism toward a harder, more literalistic theology.  (I think of this as a kind of metaphysical materialism.)

I think B.T. is correct that naturalistic paganism is also an attempt to legitimize pagan beliefs and practices from within (as oppose to against) the modern scientific understanding of reality.  Not surprisingly my own turn toward a more naturalistic spirituality occurred in college when I was studying science.  I came to feel that my belief and desire to believe in a world with a supernatural magical superstructure with all its enchanting denizens of gods, devas, faeries and the likes could not be justified, that I could not justify such beliefs to my scientifically minded colleagues.  I didn’t give up my spirituality as some would, but reinterpreted it within a naturalistic framework.  Now my own sense of spirituality is so enmeshed with a naturalistic worldview that supernaturalism seems to me to be a diminishment of meaning compared to a naturalistic/humanistic view of religion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great interview!  I am looking forward to listening to “Faith, Fern and Compass.”  I think Alison has really put her finger on the mark – “sustainability” is a huge issue in paganism.  Modern western paganism/polytheism is a very, very young religion growing in the strange unnatural soil of modern life.  IMO paganism is still very much an adolescent religion, still finding itself, still reacting/rebelling against mainstream culture and religion.  This is of course an exciting time in the life of a religion, but I wonder if paganism will stand the test of time.  It is interesting to speculate what paganism might look like in 100 years.  Of course with the never ending breakneck speed of technological innovation and change in our culture, who knows what the world will be like in 100 years much less paganism.  Sustainability is truly the issue of our times.</p>
<p>I also very much agree with what Alison has to say about hard polytheism.  Our overall culture puts a lot of emphasis on physical reality and de-emphasizes/de-values the very real but non-physical aspects of human experience (or worse reduces the significance of these by interpreting them as merely mental processes).  For many Christians if Jesus did not literally rise from the dead and physically ascend into heaven, than the whole Christian tradition, the sense of meaning and purpose derived from participating in the Christian community and the very real and powerful spiritual experience that many Christians have, is a baseless delusion, without real value.  I think some of these same forces/values (either knowingly or not) are at work pushing paganism toward a harder, more literalistic theology.  (I think of this as a kind of metaphysical materialism.)</p>
<p>I think B.T. is correct that naturalistic paganism is also an attempt to legitimize pagan beliefs and practices from within (as oppose to against) the modern scientific understanding of reality.  Not surprisingly my own turn toward a more naturalistic spirituality occurred in college when I was studying science.  I came to feel that my belief and desire to believe in a world with a supernatural magical superstructure with all its enchanting denizens of gods, devas, faeries and the likes could not be justified, that I could not justify such beliefs to my scientifically minded colleagues.  I didn’t give up my spirituality as some would, but reinterpreted it within a naturalistic framework.  Now my own sense of spirituality is so enmeshed with a naturalistic worldview that supernaturalism seems to me to be a diminishment of meaning compared to a naturalistic/humanistic view of religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Upcoming work &#171; Humanistic Paganism</title>
		<link>http://humanisticpaganism.com/2012/06/17/sustainable-pagan-communities-an-interview-with-alison-leigh-lily/#comment-2594</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Upcoming work &#171; Humanistic Paganism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humanisticpaganism.com/?p=2439#comment-2594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Sustainable communities: An interview with Alison Leigh Lilly [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sustainable communities: An interview with Alison Leigh Lilly [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Halstead</title>
		<link>http://humanisticpaganism.com/2012/06/17/sustainable-pagan-communities-an-interview-with-alison-leigh-lily/#comment-2569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Halstead]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humanisticpaganism.com/?p=2439#comment-2569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great discussion Alison and BT!

&quot;Right now, there are many folks out there experimenting with different solutions — some borrowed from more mainstream religious traditions, , some set up as alternatives to redress problems of the mainstream.&quot;

Alison, can you give some examples of what you are thinking of?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion Alison and BT!</p>
<p>&#8220;Right now, there are many folks out there experimenting with different solutions — some borrowed from more mainstream religious traditions, , some set up as alternatives to redress problems of the mainstream.&#8221;</p>
<p>Alison, can you give some examples of what you are thinking of?</p>
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